Phoenix from the Mozilla Project

[David]

Hi,

Reprint from Mozilla page:
Phoenix is a redesign of the Mozilla browser component, similar to Galeon, K-Meleon and Chimera, but written using the XUL user interface language and designed to be cross-platform. More information about Phoenix is available at the Phoenix Project Page.

Phonix Project Page:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/

Release Notes and FAQ
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/phoenix-release-notes.html

I thought that some of you may be interested in this. I might give it a try myself when I have time. :)

[Lithp]

Thanks David,
I downloaded it a few days ago and I like it so far. It is of course, still in develpment so the options are a bit limited.
Lithp

[David]

Hi Lithp,

I use Netscape Communicator 4.8 and Mozilla 1.1 from time to time. Fortunately, they use different installation directories and different data directories. That is except for Netscape 6 or 7 which use the same directory as Mozilla. Anyway, does Phoenix use a different installation and data directories than those two. If so, I will install in along side them to work with. If not, which one of the two, Mozilla 1.1 or Netscape Communicator 4.8 will I have to give up to use Phoenix? :)

[Lithp]

Hi David,
Phoenix installs to Windows/application Data (like Moz) but it also installs its own directories. So the data is seperate from Mozilla, which I also run.
Personnaly I would give up netscape way before I would give up Moilla. Of course there is always Beonex (http://www.beonex.com/) which is also based on the Mozilla engine.

[root]

I guess everyone knows I love Opera, but I do need a replacement for IE on that rare occassion where I need activex and am considering. Mozilla or Phoenix. So, how far away from being a full fledged contender is Phoenix? Do you guys think Mozilla is ready for mainstream computing yet?
I'm trying to get a feel for Mozilla as I have no interest in returning to AOLs version, Netscape.

[David]

Hi root,

Mozilla is OK. It looks just like the old Netscape Communicator but has several more options and features. By the way, Mozilla and Phoenix probably do not support Active X. The only browser that I know of that supports Active X is IE or possibly one of the other browsers that use its engine.

However, an Active X plugin does exist for Netscape and Mozilla. And, since Phoenix is based off of Mozilla, the same Netscape style Active X plugin can probably be used. The plugin is called the MeadCo Neptune ActiveX Plugin and can be found at:

http://www.meadroid.com/

You will have to supply a name and e-mail address to download it. But, the download is free and from my experience, I have not had any problems with e-mails or SPAM from MeadCo. :)

[root]

Well, I'm up and running with Mozilla 1.1 as I finally worked out a few bugs. Finding a bookmark converter really helped.
I'm surprised, but Mozilla seems to be markedly faster than Opera. It is really noticible on 56k.
I have the Google toolbar for it and the Prefs bar, but if you show both, you loose a lot of desktop realestate.
Cookie handling seems ok and the autocomplete for logins works great. I'm wondering how much a security risk that is.
One thing I really dont like is when you click on a link in email, it opens a new window and not a new tab. There should be an option for that.
All in all, Mozilla looks like it will fly and I don't have to deal with AOHELLL or M$.

[RISC OS]

David,

Mozilla should be able to use flash, you just install the netscape plugins and it detects Mozilla and installs for Moz. too at the same time as installing netscape.

Root,

I like Opera too! (IE is nice though, and is what I use when can't use Opera). I can't wait for version 7, I hope the mail client is a lot better and support for standards and scripting is promised to be better as well. I hope so, I hate having to switch to another browser because a sites scripts can't be run under Opera :(

[Mark]

I've been using Phoenix for a couple of weeks now and like it a lot. I actually now prefer it to Mozilla - not least of all because you can customize the toolbar! Even at this early stage Phoenix is very stable on my system and seems to load pages faster than Mozilla.

[root]

I had to uninstall Mozilla last night. I was trying install flash and kept getting messages that were suggesting I was trying to install Mozilla stuff onto IE. ????
Was also getting an error message on launching Mozilla about Using Mozilla Java on IE.?????
Also, on the window tabs - I want the tabs at the bottom.
Guess I'll wait for a few less buggs and more control. :(

[root]

OK, couldn't wait. I'm trying Mozilla 1.2 alfa, and so far its great. Knock on wood.
I'll let you know.
PS Flash is working. Or is it Java?
Never know what a sites using any more.

[minoka]

Hello Root,

and I went back from moz 1.2a and b to moz 1.1!

The newer mozillas would not play .wav and .mid files while online, at least on my computer. I did modify my own coding and finally heard my own sounds, but not elsewhere including this test page
http://www.mozilla.org/quality/browser/front-end/testcases/plugins/

Could you do me a favour and try my page at http://www.msears.com/
click on New York (this opens a new window and a flash movie should load and play)
click on the tiny blue speaker to toggle on/off a .mid sound.
Closing the main movie will close the sound as well.
Also, blur() does not seem to work in mozilla.
Did the music play?
Thanks.

[root]

Yes the music played on Mozilla 1.2a. The site seemed to work well.
The problem I'm having with Mozilla is Java. I have JRE2 1.4.1 installed and all the right files are in the plugin directory, but java wont work. :mad:

[minoka]

Thanks for checking out my sounds.
I have no problems with java.
Under preferences and advanced, java is checked, right?
Try unchecking it, close moz, re-open it and check java again. Sometimes this does the trick!
You may also want to have a look at the Java Plug in in control panel and make sure all is ok there.

[root]

Tried that. Still no go. Everything looks like Java should work but when I go to WWW.morelerbe.com, the message at the bottom of the page on the left says java applet failedinit.
GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrr!

[minoka]

The transparent menu applet is pretty cool. Works well in netscape...4.08 (1998 standalone version).
I have an old applet (1997 or so) somewhat similar to the one above. I can put it online for you to test your mozilla with if you wish. Let me know.

[root]

I could try it. I don't have much hope that Mozilla 1.2 is going to work with Java for me though.
I don't know what else I can do. I uninstalled the web start, and its still the same.
Opera works great.
Funny. Used to be, I used Netscape and it worked great for me and I had trouble getting Opera to work. That was a long time ago in a Galaxy, far, far away. :D

[minoka]

Interesting news:
I just installed Netscape 7 Stand alone (no mail no news no activation) from http://sillydog.org/narchive/
There is also a streamlined version which does include mail/news with option to not install aim.

At first no sounds while online.
I then copied the plugin directory from ns 4.08 (it had all the plugins from mozilla anyway -rearranged: I put the liveaudio plugin last in that folder) over to netscape 7 and all seems to be working ok except for the javascript blur() method.
Of course ns took over most extensions (html, gif etc...) I fixed that immediately.

I am going to put the old applet online as soon as I change the links it connects to! Will let you know.

[minoka]

Hello Root,

I finally have this applet online

http://www.msears.com/menu3dr.html

ns7 first showed the tiny java pix in the place of the applet, then the applet ran without pb.

Let me know if it works in your mozilla!

20:40pm Oct 13, 2002. The applet above is now offline. Sorry.

[root]

Worked in Opera, nothing in Mozilla. :( :( :(

[minoka]

In my plugins dir, there are 7 java files.
Is that what you have?

Somewhere I read that sometimes removing npjava32, 11 and 12 from the plugins dir solves the pb???

[minoka]

One more thing I remember from having pb with netscape and java applets:
check "Activating Codebase Principals"
http://developer.netscape.com/docs/technote/security/sectn2.html

[root]

Added the line to prefs.js.
Stil no workee.
Thanks for trying. :)

[minoka]

I'd say: forget it just as I did :)

Maybe someone else will jump in and help us, you and java and I with sounds...

[root]

Missed your one post before. I too have 7 java files in the plugins folder. I moved the three files out, and no go.
I'm like you, I'm tired of messing with it.
Hopefully Mozilla will straighten out in a few more releases.
As for Phoenix, does mozilla need to be installed for Phoenix to work or is it a stand alone?

[minoka]

I believe Phoenix is a stand-alone.
After reading this however
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/phoenix-release-notes.html
I'll pass for a while. For instance:
"* Phoenix utilizes large hunks of Mozilla code. Many of the problems you may experience in Phoenix are actually problems in this Mozilla core code. If you find a problem with page content orconnectivity then it is probably a Mozilla problem and should be reported to the Browser product in Bugzilla and not to the Phoenix product".

[Mark]

Originally posted by root
Also, on the window tabs - I want the tabs at the bottom.You'll be able to do this (and more!) if you install "Tabbrowser Extensions" which can be found at:
http://www.cc-net.or.jp/~piro/xul/_tabextensions.en.html
It works with Phoenix as well!
Originally posted by root
As for Phoenix, does mozilla need to be installed for Phoenix to work or is it a stand alone? Phoenix is standalone. You should really give it a try. I prefer it to Mozilla and it's very stable, even at this early stage in its development. Also, development is progressing very rapidly at the moment. They're now at release 0.3. According to the developers, future releases will now concentrate mostly on code clean-up and bug fixing.

Regards,
Mark

[root]

Well, I have Phoenix .03 and java still doesn't work. It still works fine with Opera.
I took a shower this morning, and brushed my teeth. I told my wife I love her and did not kick the dog, all day.
What am I doing wrong????????????

[Mark]

Well, I have Phoenix .03 and java still doesn't work. It still works fine with Opera.root,
have you tried installing Java from within Phoenix (or Mozilla) using this xpi file?
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape/plugins/java/english/windows/win32/jre140_01i.xpi
Uninstall your existing JRE first and then open the file in Phoenix/Mozilla.
Another thought - Phoenix and Mozilla allow you to disable certain java script annoyances ("Allow java to ...." in Preferences). Have you checked to see if any of those options are disabled and thus causing your problem?

[root]

No, none of the options are disabled.

have you tried installing Java from within Phoenix (or Mozilla) using this xpi file?
>No
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape.../jre140_01i.xpi
Uninstall your existing JRE first
>Do you mean delete the java files from the plugin or uninstall Java 1.41? If I totally uninstall it, it will screw up Opera.

and then open the file in Phoenix/Mozilla.
>No install? Just copy to Phoenix directory and double click it?

I appreciate your help.

[Mark]

>Do you mean delete the java files from the plugin or uninstall Java 1.41? If I totally uninstall it, it will screw up Opera.Uninstall Java 1.41. It shouldn't screw up Opera - the JRE will be installed in the normal manner when you open the xpi file and you should be able to select Netscape/Mozilla and Opera integration at the end of the install process. You'll also be able to select these options in the Windows Control Panel - look for the Java icon in control panel.>No install? Just copy to Phoenix directory and double click it?No, don't copy the xpi file to the Phoenix folder - simply leave it where you downloaded it to. Then open the file from *within* the Phoenix browser (ie. start Phoenix, select File .... Open file .... in the menu). This will start a normal installation process, but inside Phoenix.

[root]

I got the Netscape java installed. Some sites seem to work, but I cannot get the applett at www.morelerbe.com to load.
I'm getting used to Phoenix and I like it. Still needs lots of polish, but I'm sure it will get there.
Thanks for the help.

[meneer]

Hi you all, thanks for this great link. Seems very promising indeed. But, like root says, needs some work. But sofar I'm impressed.

[minoka]

Hello Root,

The applet is very very slow loading. I even thought my IE6's java was having pbs with applets!
Downloaded and installed moz 1.2b and still no sounds while online...

[bassbag]

Im currently using IE6 through MYIE .I have experimented with mozilla and opera.Of the two I preffered opera but some sites just wouldnt work properly so im using IE6 engine again.I dont want to tread on anyones toes here but it does seem that everyone wants to get away from IE because of security risks and yet want to install java and active x into mozilla or opera which were the very reasons some people didnt like IE.Personally i think IE is very safe if set up correctly to prompt for active x ,java .scripting etc.The options are there to make it safe (though admittedly not by default)as any other browser currently out.Just my opinion anyway.
me

[minoka]

Hi Bassbag,
I agree with you re IE6...everything works with mine!

Moz does not support LiveAudio. To hear my own sounds online I have revamped my html to use the object tag as suggested here:
http://devedge.netscape.com/viewsource/2002/gecko-plugins/
and here:
http://devedge.netscape.com/library/manuals/2002/plugin/1.0/intro.html
But if I test sounds on mozilla's own test site, nothing happens! I get an unknown extension alert/error. Same thing on sites which are not up to html 4.01 specs.

Update:
Installing the beatnik player found here
http://www.hmetzger.de/ple.html
solved the no sound pb on most sites !